Another blogger and I have been discussing the topic of free will over at Wingin' It, and we've now brought that discussion over here. This post is simply to have a place to continue that discussion.
Doctrine
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7 comments:
So ... where's the discussion?
I don't think Dan has seen that I posted this yet. Also, I just haven't had the time to go back and review his thoughts last expressed and then been able to respond. I've spent a lot of time in the studio lately. And this week isn't looking much better. Sorry...I'll get to it as soon as I can.
Sorry, I was expecting some commentary on my last set of questions. Here they are again...
I. What criteria do you have for determining what is and isn't literal in the Bible?
II. What does it mean to have "limited" free will?
III. Does God not "allow" some people to make moral choices of their own? Sometimes? Often? All the time for the lost?
IV. The notion of "limited" free will is just an unknown to me as to what it could POSSIBLY mean, in the real world. If you have any explanation at all of this, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.
V. We agree, don't we, that some of the Bible is imagery and that some ought to be taken more literally, yes? I've listed several things I take fairly literally, including...
1. Jesus said and meant, "Blessed are the poor."
2. Jesus said and meant, "Woe to you who are rich!"
3. James said, "Come now, you rich, weep and wail over your impending miseries... Behold, the wages you withheld from the workers who harvested your fields are crying aloud, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts."
4. James said, "You [rich folk] have condemned; you have murdered the righteous one; he offers you no resistance."
5. Leviticus tells us, "When you come into the land which I give you, then the land shall keep a Sabbath to the LORD"
6. Leviticus tells us, "When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not be so thorough that you reap the field to its very edge, nor shall you glean the stray ears of your grain. These things you shall leave for the poor and the alien. I, the LORD, am your God."
7. Jesus commanded us, "Do not take an oath at all... Let your yes be yes and your no be no."
8. Paul commanded us, "Don't worry about anything, but pray about everything."
9. Jesus commanded us, "turn the other cheek," and Paul expanded saying, "Overcome evil with good."
10. Paul says, "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink."
VI. Do YOU take these literally? If you don't (at least some of them), then would it be fair for me to accuse you of not respecting the Bible or of rejecting God's "obvious" teachings? Or ought we operate with a bit more grace in our dealings with one another?
I'll be glad to talk about any and/or all of these questions, as well as tackle any questions you may have for me.
Like I said, I'd like to slow things down, a bit. There are a lot of things there, Dan, but let's take a little bit at a time. In an attempt to do as much as I can, though, most of the questions involve 'literal' interpretation. My question for you would be, how do you define 'literal?' I would ask that you please refrain from using the line regarding the common, everyday meaning, as that assumes a lot of things that ought not be assumed (maybe even why we talk past each other a lot), so an actual definition would be helpful. Let's start there.
Literal: According to the ordinary construction or primary meaning of a term or expression.
When I talk about reading the Bible literally, some considerations...
1. There was a time - the first half of my life - when I would have considered myself an inerrantist who took the bible fairly literally. I am talking from having been there and without animosity towards those who consider themselves an inerrantist.
2. Since I WAS an inerrantist, I fully recognize that no one literally takes each line in the Bible literally. I know that we all recognize that there are parable, similes, metaphors, poetry and various types of imagery used in the Bible and THAT'S not what I refer to literalists. I know that inerrantists don't take Jesus instruction to gouge out our eyes or the line, "four corners of the earth" literally.
So, when I use the term "literal," I mean just what the word normally means: According to the ordinary construction or primary meaning of a term or expression. And when I ask, "WHY do you think THIS line in the Bible out to be taken fairly literally, and not THAT line?..." I am using "literal" in the normal sense of the word.
I would tend to believe that we're both operating under the normal meaning of the word "literal," yes?
And thanks for asking and for taking it slowly. Always helpful.
Ryan, should I assume you are just not going to have time to deal with this? No problem, if not. I understand fully having a lack of time.
It's just that if we're not going to have this conversation, I'll quit coming back to check.
I'm so sorry...I've think I've bitten off more than I can chew. I'm in the middle of ramping up my business and officially becoming a business owner. It's utilizing a lot of my energy right now. I'll get back to you when I can devote more time to it. My apologies...